Episode 1: Clara Luper and Pliny the Elder

Episode 1: Clara Luper and Pliny the Elder
Note: This transcript was done by an AI, not by a person. There will be errors.

Mattie: Hello all and welcome to Will This Be On The Test. I’m Mattie.

Austin: I’m Austin.

Mattie: And we are here to share with you some information that we did not learn in school, but maybe we should have

Austin: and all of the other weird and interesting history information that we didn’t learn because it was either too weird, too wild or too just abnormal for squat.

Mattie: Although in the case of what I have today, I can’t think of a single darn good reason we didn’t learn about it
Austin: really what do you have for us today?

Mattie: Well, a little backstory. I went to school in Oklahoma for several years. During that time we did an entire I think semester on Oklahoma history. We learned all about the Sooners who definitely weren’t big fat cheaters. Yep. We learned all about how nice we were to the Native Americans. We weren’t. But what we didn’t learn about was Clara Luper. Have you ever heard about Clara Luper? 

Austin: I have never heard of Clara Luper. 

Mattie: I’m so excited to tell you about her. I heard about her on another podcast just in passing and I thought if this person is so important, why the heck have I never heard about her so you’re ready to dive into some segregation times in Oklahoma?

Austin: Oh, the best times.

Mattie: Let’s dive right into this. Alright. So Clara Luper was a high school teacher in Oklahoma, and she’s best known for her work in the civil rights movement. She was born Clara may Shepard on May 3 1923 and rural Ofuskee…Ofuskee…County, Oklahoma, both her parents were blue-collar workers. Now they were really, really different people from each other. Her dad, who sounds like the coolest, was a world war one veteran, and he really, really believed what they were fighting for was for freedom and equality for everybody. Woodrow Wilson drilled that into their heads, 

Austin: Which is weird because Woodrow Wilson was like a crazy anti-Semite nut job.

Mattie: Yet he believed that they’re fighting to make the world safe for democracy. So he was really, really excited for the future for his kids. It didn’t matter that they were glowing growing up black and in Oklahoma and they were still completely segregated because he truly believed it was going to get better and he raised his kids to believe that her mom on the other hand, not a bad person, I don’t want to say that she was from Texas and her experience have been a little different. She once saw a black person burned alive. Oh, and so she was afraid of what would happen. If anyone were to speak up against segregation. She was just trying to keep her kids safe. So when they get on the bus and be told to get to the back, her mom would tell her to be quiet. And her dad would just tell her changes coming. Luper attended high school and all Black town Grayson, Oklahoma and then attended Langston University, the only historically black college in Oklahoma, where she got a degree in math and a minor in history in 1944. So she was only 21 when she graduated because she was smart, then this is cool. This is where you start really learning how cool Clara was. She later became the first black student period in the graduate history program at the University of Oklahoma. And she got her master’s in history education in 1951. 

Austin: Wow.

Mattie: Yeah. So not only was she black, she was also a woman. And so she was the first one there. That alone would be enough for us to learn about her in school. Don’t you think that

Austin: Yes.

Mattie: yeah, but we didn’t hear about her despite all this. That comes next. So she went on to be a teacher at Dungey High School in Spencer, Oklahoma, in 1955, Martin Luther King Jr. started to become visible. And she was inspired by his activism, especially the Montgomery Bus Boycott, which we only learned a tiny bit about in school on its own. So she became the advisor for the Oklahoma City in NAACP Youth Council in 1957. With that group, she wrote and staged a play called brother president, which was about Martin Luther King’s put that position on non violence. And in 1958, they were invited to perform for the NAACP in New York City. So it’s this group of young people from Oklahoma, the national group found out about them and drop them all out to Oklahoma or up to New York City to perform a play that they wrote an accident. That is awesome. Again, enough for us to have learned about her.

Austin: Yeah, I mean, at the very least in theater, because that was, yeah,

Mattie: so Oklahoma, shockingly was a conservative state with a lot of segregation.Now when we think about 50’s 60’s, segregation, Oklahoma seems to be left out of the conversation a lot.

Austin: Yeah,

Mattie: we talk about Mississippi, we talk about Alabama. We don’t talk about Oklahoma, but they were super into segregation over there?

Austin: Oh god, Yeah,

Mattie: they were all like segregation. Hooray.

Austin: The Air Force actually bomb parts of black like Oklahoma.

Mattie: I actually don’t know about that.

Austin: You don’t know. Oh, that might be a future topic.

Mattie: I took Oklahoma history.

Austin: Yeah, that’s Tulsa got they literally bombed two parts of Tulsa

Mattie: I went to school just outside of Tulsa.

Austin: Yeah. They don’t talk about that.

Mattie: Oh, geez. So while she and the kids were in New York City, they saw that the rest of the world was not as in desegregation as Oklahoma. It definitely had problems. New York City wasn’t any kind of bastion of hope at this point. But they were doing pretty well for the time. So they returned to Oklahoma and it was all flowers of algernon-y now they had seen that things can be different, and they couldn’t return to their normal lives. kind of how I feel sometimes having come from Boston back to the Midwest.

Austin: We’re trying so hard.

Mattie: Are we? Where’s my mass transit? We’re trying where’s my reasonable response to weather emergencies?

Austin: What’s unreasonable about looking outside to see if the tornadoes hit us yet? And then having no plan in place for when it does. We’ve got a bottle of water in the basement. Yay, Midwest.

Mattie: Boston. I love you. I miss you. So come on the bus coming back from the trip. Luper said she couldn’t stop thinking about her father. Her father was this war veteran. He fought for the country. He believed in all of this. And he was never allowed to even pee in the same bathroom as white people. Ever. This is a guy who gave up everything to fight for the country though. let them choose where to pee. In the Luper’s book, behold the walls. She said I thought about my father who had died in 1957. That’s the year before this happened in the Veterans Hospital who had never been able to sit down and eat a meal in a decent restaurant. I remembered how he used to tell us that someday he would take us out to dinner and to parks and to zoos. When I asked him when with someday, he would always say someday will be real soon as tears ran down his cheeks. So my answer was, yes, tonight’s the night history compels us to go and let history alone be my final judge. I might have cried while I was writing that part up. Her dad died a year before she was able to even start making changes. He never got to see the changes that he had been promised. And he never stopped believing in them. And that’s just so sad to me. Yeah. She decided in 1958 that it was time to start making some changes. And today, she is ultimately known as the mother of the civil rights movement. Ever heard of her?

Austin: Never heard of her.

Mattie: Yeah, we hear about Martin Luther King, we hear about Rosa Parks, who are important people to hear about. But this woman is considered the mother of the civil rights movement. And we never heard about her even when I was living in Oklahoma. And the reason she believed that no one has heard about her is because the Oklahoma protests despite them having some of the most strict strict segregation laws, their protests were almost universally peaceful. That’s why she believes and rightly so that we haven’t heard of her or the Oklahoma things that happened, because that’s not what sells if there’s not blood, or sex or drugs, it’s not going to sell. So because she did things in a way that fostered kindness. We don’t hear about her, which is not to say she didn’t have some problem with all get into that because she got some damage done to her different points. Anyway, the youth council voted to start their own non violent protests to end segregation Oklahoma City. Luper’s eight year old daughter so she’s eight. This shows you how hyper aware this kid is suggested they start with the segregated counter at Katz drugstore. Katz drugstore headquartered in Kansas City, but they had a branch in Oklahoma. They started with a red red letter writing campaign asking them to desegregate. 15 months, not a single word back. So they got tired of that shit and August 19 1958 Luper and 13 children including her own so these are kids as young as eight. Went to Katz sat the lunch counter asked to be served. And they were refused. So they sat and they read and they did their homework because Luper was a teacher and she was not going to get up. Take up their excuses for not having done their work. But Miss Luper. You were there. I saw what you were doing. You are not doing your work. That’s how I found my students sometimes. Police were called none were arrested though they did meet with a lot of hostility from people around them. She said that a few people who are white did offer to buy them lunch, but more commonly there was all kinds of n-words flying around and being told to know their place versus our place. She said that some of these people were people she had known for years and never had a problem with and then they show up and start harassing her and a bunch of children. So what’s cool though is they weren’t arrested because the lieutenant of the police force bill purser had a silent agreement with Luper that if your kids were chill, they wouldn’t Harm or arrest of them. And this was true for the future acts of nonviolent disobedience they did as well. They also think a lot of this is because they were children. So it was less likely people will become violent. Unless we know that’s not true all the time. Always because people have no problem turning fire hoses on to children or burning down youth groups.

Austin: Yep.

Mattie: And unfortunately, this kind of shit still happens. So all that though, Luper herself was arrested 26 times. And she stayed a teacher the whole time. Nowadays. You get arrested once for jaywalking, and you’re out.

Austin: Yeah,

Mattie: this woman got arrested 26 times through all of her civil rights stuff. Let’s just back out at the next day

Austin: dude she must have like, there was a bit like some substitute teacher who was like just Okay, fine.

Mattie: I’ll tell you that as a substitute teacher, I’d be like, yeah, give me that money. Give me more money. Two days after they began their sit-ins, Katz drugstore was desegregated. In three states. They were in five states couldn’t find if the others were already segregated, or if they were just being assholes. Not only was this the first act of such disobedience in Oklahoma, or at least the first majorly recognized one. This was the first drugstore counter center sit-in the first one,

Austin: really?

Mattie: Yeah, this happened before the one in Greensboro, North Carolina.

Austin: john lewis never mentioned that in his biography.

Mattie: JOHN, john, we’ve got some questions.

Austin: You’re, you’re a national treasure. JOHN, don’t let us criticize you. But you didn’t mention that your graphic novel biography.

Mattie: There’s a graphic novel of john lewis.

Austin: Okay, yeah, I’m gonna have to get that for you.

Mattie: Are we recommending that to our listeners?

Austin: I am absolutely recommending it. hi to people who listen to us possibly by mistake.

Mattie: What’s it called?

Austin: I can’t remember.

Mattie: Go in and ask your local librarian, just not this one.

Mattie: So the Greensboro, North Carolina citizens didn’t occur until 1962 whole years after this, and they’re probably more newsworthy because they had violence. Seriously, why the fuck that we not learn about Clara Luper, she started all of this.

Austin: Yeah.

Mattie: But we also didn’t learn about all the brave people who refused to move to back of the bus until Rosa Parks. She wasn’t the first one either. In fact, there was one before her who they didn’t put in the news because she was a pregnant teenager.

Austin: They were still asking a pregnant teenager to give up their seats.

Mattie: Yeah. As part of this movement, she refused and they kept her intentionally. I don’t know. I’m not saying who they are. I don’t know if it was the press. I don’t know who. But she was kept intentionally out of the press and history books because of the shame of her teenage pregnancy. So from 58 to 64, Luper kept working to fight segregation. She led campaigns for equal banking rights, employment opportunities, housing voting, and with the loot Youth Council. She integrated hundreds of restaurants, theaters, hotels and churches, including some Oklahoma City landmarks, so 1964 really matters and her story. While the National Civil Rights Act was enacted that year, Oklahoma City created its own ordinance beforehand, in theory, ending racial discrimination in Oklahoma City before the National Civil Rights Act. And it goes back to Clara Luper because of Clara Luper one of the most segregated cities in the whole country desegregated before the nation. And she said that all things considered it happened pretty quickly. So she took her activism to outside of Oklahoma City and went to the NAACP national conference every year. She got to hear the I Have a Dream speech and she was injured on Bloody Sunday were 600 civil rights marchers were attacked by police with tear gas, tear gas, and billy clubs. But that shit doesn’t stop her. She’s a badass. There are pictures of her where you can see that she’s been banged up and she still has that look on her face of bring it. In 1972 she ran for the United States Senate and lost. The Press, of course, was like, hey, you’re black. How can you represent you know, people? Because you know, black people aren’t people back in 1972 and sometimes now sorry, guys, we suck. We’ll try to do better we promise. Anyway, her response was, of course, I can represent white people, black people, yellow people, brown people poke it up people you see I have lived long enough to know that people are people. During that campaign, she was also asked about her views on interracial marriage. Now remember, there was recently someone running for city council made national news who actually ran on the platform of keep our city white and then went into add to it saying that we shouldn’t have people with different colors breeding

Austin: I’m assuming this was in Mississippi,

Mattie: I can’t remember some little old lady who doubled down afterward. The poorest people running for council laid into her right afterward. It was amazing. This is in 1972. She was asked about that. And for some reason, the guy interviewing her who asked if she liked interracial marriage, didn’t like it when she said that if God didn’t want creatures to breed, he would have made it biologically impossible. And that’s clearly not the case for white people and black people. No one asked her about it again. See, I this is why I was so excited to talk about her. Because not only is she someone who should be in history classes, this woman knew how to fire back.

Austin: Yes, God if she’d had Twitter. I mean, nothing would have gotten done because there had been Twitter but

Mattie: all right, to make her an even bigger badass. Are you ready?

Austin: Ready.

Mattie: She never stopped being a teacher or a principal during any of this and retired in 1989. What it’s like the 1989. This woman is doing all of this nationwide work to desegregate and bring forward civil rights. And at the same time maintaining a lifelong, full-time job in education.

Austin: But she had summers off. There was lots of sarcasm and that please don’t hit me. I’m getting the Death Stare. Oh, she’s now going back to her paper. I think I’m safe. Oh, she’s looking at me again. She’s rolling it up. Don’t hit me with it out. Okay, fine.

Mattie:  And she was given the opportunity to not just work in black schools, but also in white schools. As a teacher and principal. She balanced all of the things that she was doing with one of the most stressful jobs on the face of the earth, which is teaching. And so whenever you find yourself like, I just can’t handle this. Imagine Claire Luper because she did so much more than any of the rest of us. And she continued her work in civil rights until 2008, or illnesses caught up with her event and she had to retire officially. Her students loved her. Unsurprisingly, many of them went on to fight segregation themselves. One was the first African American chief of police in Oklahoma City. And another one on to be a US Army Colonel crediting her for that choice. Now, she remembers, though, that there was one white woman who did not want her son in Luper’s class, and she did it in an over-the-top fashion. She didn’t just write a letter make a phone call. No, no. She walked into the classroom and called her son out of the room and said We’re leaving. Now, Clara was not putting up with this.

Austin: Noooo.

Mattie: Clara, quote, had to show her I was the boss of my classroom. And so I went out and said, Show me some identification because you might be trying to kidnap one of these students. She finally convinced the woman to show ID and then Luper said that she is responsible for this classroom and that she, the mother, had embarrassed her son who was a junior in high school.

Austin: Oh yeah, that would be like the second most embarrassing thing that ever happened in your life. But with a mother like that there’s definitely something where embarrassing that has happened.

Mattie: Yeah, that poor kid. Obviously, though, mom’s not gonna listen to this woman. It’s just her classroom. So she dragged her son out anyway, her son went off on her, told her he was staying because he was actually learning something. Many, many years later, he got in contact with Clara invited her out to lunch, not warning her that her his mother would be there. I don’t know that he warned the mother either. I’m not sure. They sit down and he tells his mom that this Clara Luper is the lady who changed my life. His mom actually apologized.

Austin: Wow.

Mattie: Luper said that she never held hatred against her or anyone else in the first place and viewed people like this woman as ignorant and worthy of pity.Austin: That was way nicer than I would have been to this woman because I, oh…
Mattie: she’s she is the biggest badass, there is nobody who has timing like her knows exactly what to say. And here’s the last little story about her before we wrap her up. One of her own favorite stories from her time was when she debated a leader of the Ku Klux Klan. She, when she gets up there purposefully, said she is excited to debate the issue with her brother. He got angry, and said, You know, I’m not your brother, I’m not your brother, blah, blah, blah. She said that as a Christian, she had been told that all men are brothers. He tried to argue it. And she basically said, You know, I remember that from the Bible, but maybe I should go reread it to see if I’m wrong. Bad Ass.

Austin: Yes.

Mattie: She also said that she won that debate.

Austin: I I would say yes, she did win that debate. I mean, when you’re quoting the Bible against somebody who is trying to use the Bible to prove their point and is getting it wrong…

Mattie: So moving ahead to 2005 the Clara Luper corridor was built connecting the Oklahoma State Capitol to the historically African American area of North East Oklahoma City. Clara received a shit ton of awards, including induction into the Oklahoma Hall of Fame, the Oklahoma Women’s Hall of Fame, and the Oklahoma Afro-American Hall of Fame. And then there’s a scholarship at Oklahoma City University in her name that is geared towards students of diverse backgrounds with financial needs and emphasizes community service leadership and education. Now, I wasn’t living in Oklahoma in 2005, but I was there. I left in 1998. This is before she retired, she didn’t retire until 2008. She was still doing this then. And not once was she mentioned in the four years of school I had an Oklahoma including the semester-long or if not a year-long class in Oklahoma history. It kind of makes me a little sick. We couldn’t get this woman a little blurb. But we had to spend all this time making stuff up about the positive relationship between settlers and Native Americans

Austin: or trying to make it the spin of Yeah, we totally cheated to steal land from the Native Americans into like a point of state pride.

Mattie: Yeah. And when we did mention the fighting between the two, it was never the white person’s fault. It was always this quote, unquote, savages. Not the worst thing I ever heard in history class, but up there, Clara Luper died at the age of 88 on June 8 2011, and Oklahoma City. Now this woman who had done all these amazing things over the years, who was never mentioned in my Oklahoma history course, was lived in repose in the rotunda of the state capitol building and all of the flags were flown at half staff, the whole state shut down in that way to honor her. But they didn’t even think to include her in the history curriculum.

Austin: That is just a shame. That’s such a huge opportunity to talk about arguably one of the best people to have in your state history. And you are just not

Mattie: we learned about Will Rogers a lot

Austin: Well, they named the turnpike after him.

Mattie: It’s got a McDonald’s on it. There’s a museum too of course there is although I did get go to that museum on the turnpike a lot. It’s where I got my favorite stuffed horse from childhood.

Austin: The one that’s still here?

Mattie: Still here, yeah.

Austin: Aw.

Mattie: Oh, poor guy. He’s had a rough life.

Austin: Zoombie ate his feet.

Mattie: My dog ate his face. So we like to conclude each one of our little sections with Will This Be On the Test? We don’t look for the answer to the question. We simply answer whether or not we believe this thing will be on a test over this topic if such a test were to happen. If there’s a test on Clara Luper, Will This Be On the Test? Clara Luper was born on May 23, 1923.

Austin: Yes,

Mattie: the Katz drugstore thing at all?

Austin: Yes.

Mattie: Why do you Think so?

Austin: Well, it’s like this was a big thing civil rights movement of the city and it was peaceful. There were kids, which like, I mean, if you’re doing this as a test, like an old school, it’s like, there were kids there.

Mattie: Clara Luper was arrested 26 times.

Austin: Yes. Wait, no, that wouldn’t be on the test because she got arrested. She was a teacher, and teachers don’t get arrested.

Mattie: Mm hmm. We have this thing we do called heroifying, where we remove anything that could possibly make someone look bad although I don’t think this makes her look bad does it was all in service of this. To turn them into perfect heroes. It happens with almost every major historical figure. We brush over the fact that George Washington owned slaves, we brush over the fact that Alexander Hamilton is a big part of why people who were not born in America can’t run for president. All because he had an affair.

Austin: Yep.

Mattie: we brush over these things over Hamilton entirely. Alright, she told a white mom off for killing.

Austin: Well, it’s a feel like she said more. If she killed someone!

Mattie: So she told me my mom off for pulling her kid out of class.

Austin: Oh, no, no, cuz they’ll get back to white moms and Karen will want to speak to your manager, which I guess is the principal in this case.

Mattie: But later I’m Clara Luper was the principal. There’s nowhere to go, Karen. I am the manager, Karen. She pissed off a kkk member by calling him brother.

Austin: Yes.

Mattie: Would that be on the test?

Austin: I’d put that on the test. But I’d also have been fired many years ago if I was a teacher.

Mattie: And then she died on June 8 2011.

Austin: Yep.

Mattie: All right. Any last thoughts about Miss Luper?

Austin: She was amazing. Like, this is something. This is like definitely one of the things when we were talking about this podcast. It’s like this is one of the things I’m really glad to have learned that I knew nothing about and this. I feel like I am a better person for doing this.

Mattie: Yeah, it’s hard to find much humor in any of it because she was such a super badass during a time where people were extra horrible to each other. Hmm, there is nothing funny about her because of her level of badassery. And also I’m pretty sure her ghost would come down and say something really burning to me and then fly off laughing.

Austin: It’s like her ghost would just it wouldn’t really haunt you , it’d just say, You’re really eating Cheetos for dinner. When is your homework done? And then she just disappeared. I feel guilty.

Mattie: She got her teacher voice and asked if you thought you made a good decision today.

Austin: And then I look really sad

Mattie: Alright, so that’s Clara Luper. Who you here to tell me about today?

Austin: So I was researching just random stuff because privilege. Maybe there’s like some medical history or like science history stuff that we found for this. And I was looking at this name kept popping up. And it was Pliny the Elder

Mattie: Plynnie.

Austin: Pliny the Elder

Mattie: Spell it for me.

Austin: P L I N Y

Mattie: Pliny.

Austin: Yep.

Mattie: Why don’t we have that name anymore?

Austin: Because it was ancient Rome, and there’s lots of names from ancient Rome. We don’t have any more.

Mattie: I say we bring them back.

Austin: Alright, cool. You can be Pilus,

Mattie: Pilus, is that a woman’s name? Or a man’s name?

Austin: Actually, that’s a man’s name. Nevermind pila

Mattie:  I mean, I can rock either one

Austin: you absolutely could. So anyway, Pliny the Elder was born in 23 CE in northern Italy he was a military officer did lots of like typical Roman man crap.

Mattie: guys want to jump in here? CE means Common Era Common Era, which in history class we always learned as AD.

Austin: Yep.

Mattie: And we also learned before that is BC, since been largely changed to BCE meaning before common era and CE meaning Common Era to take the religiosity out of it.

Austin: Yep.

Mattie: Side Note

Austin: Side note. The more you know,

Mattie: we’re gonna get sued.

Austin: I think I suck it poorly enough. No one would ever sue us.

Mattie: They don’t want to be associated with that in any way

Austin: that would have my singing played in court and no one would win. So what he was like kind of famous for his he wrote Natural History. And it was kind of the world’s first like prototype encyclopedia. And it was it is the longest surviving Roman written work is like 35 volumes, thousands of pages, he would dictate to his secretary from the bath. And according to his nephew, Pliny the Younger. Yep. He would have one campaign falling around taking dictation, and a second one reading to him.

Mattie: Now what the Romans the one that if you had a twin, you would name one of them and then give the other one? Not that name. So you’d be like Austin and not Austin?

Austin: Maybe I don’t know. That’s it. We should come up with anything about Pliny the Elder.

Mattie: Why not?

Austin: Because Pliny the Elder didn’t have a twin brother.

Mattie: Did he eat him in the womb?

Austin: I mean, maybe we can’t we can’t say that. He didn’t say He’s like the first like encyclopedia, and he was incredibly long winded and his research was like secondhand crap he heard at best. This was like a collection of shit I heard in a bar, kind of like all of our research.

Mattie: Sorry historians.

Austin: Hey, whoa, I didn’t hear any of this in a bar. I might have seen some of it in the YouTube video. But still, it’s just crazy, crazy stuff. Just anecdotes, things he heard his own personal experience, you know, accounts like Yo, I heard it from a guy who totally saw this, like this all that that’s all this is, except for a section on minerals and metals, which he was were surprisingly accurate.

Mattie: This guy is Reddit.

Austin: Yeah, he is.

Mattie: Why don’t we call Reddit Pliny?

Austin: I don’t know. Because then someone on Reddit would actually have to do real research. reddit. Like hilariously, he was very much against mysticism and magic, because it was nonsense. But let’s talk about some of the things that were in his natural history. Because like, no matter what I’d look up, there’d be something about and Pliny the Elder said, I’m going to read some of the things I found about Pliny the Elder and what he said in his natural history. Okay, here are some of his cures for sexual desire. Men’s urine that was used to drown a lizard, you would drink some man’s urine used to drown a lizard.

Mattie: Is that to stop sexual desire?

Austin: That is to stop the sexual desire

Mattie: That would work.

Austin: That would work Hold on, here we go. There’s also snail in pigeon droppings drunk with olive oil and wine that would stop a lot of that would definitely stop sexual desire. And also in a pinch if everything else failed, you could use eunich urine

Mattie: Yeah, why is the other stuff failing?

Austin: I’m I mean that would def all of this would stop sexual desire. every last one of these, like even talking about

Mattie: please, please move on. Okay. I have the desire to lose my macaroni and cheese right now,

Austin: speaking of food, what here is cures cures for tooth ache?

Mattie: Probably not.

Austin: For tooth ache the best cure was the ashes of the head of a mad dog burn without flesh and mixed with Cypress oil and injected into the ear.

Mattie: Have you tried my essential oils?

Austin: Yeah, this is like essential oils but involving the much more rabid dogs being burnt.
Mattie? Are we sure?

Austin: I’ve got essential oil expert. Is there a essence of rabid dog?

Mattie: I have Eucalyptus over here. There is I don’t know what that would

Austin: look at the ingredients. I want to see if there’s rabid dog.

Mattie: Keep going.

Austin: Okay. Another option was earthworms boiled in oil, also injected into the year.

Mattie: We should not have eaten dinner before this.

Austin: Oh, the best way though to fix was to prevent them entirely by eating a mouse every other week.

Mattie: Well, that explains why our cats have such good teeth.

Austin: Let’s go on from like the stuff to hair Treatments Do you want long luxurious hair? The best thing to you stop looking at my bald spot you monster. The best thing to use for long luxurious hair was washing it in the urine of a young ass. You’re probably too old to hold. Yeah. Now that we’ve done like the hair treatments there is if you drinking too much unic your head and you need some sexual desire back. These are some things to like you know, increase your arousal. According to Pliny the Elder, take the right section of a vultures lung and then wear it around your neck in an amulet made of crane skin. Or you could just eat five dove a eggs in a mixture of pigs fat.

Mattie: I mean, that’s just bacon and eggs.

Austin: Then there’s also the surefire way that everything was a failed was an amulet made with a roosters right testicle in Rams skin.

Mattie: That sounds like too much work.

Austin: too much work. But like this was the best career. Sure. It’s like, why do we even like Viagra? Looks like you need to get on this?

Mattie: How do we know that’s not what Viagra is?

Austin: That’s an amulet. You don’t wear it around your neck.

Mattie: Go on, go on.

Austin: The best way to cure your joint pain was to bathe in the urine of a person who was on a cabbage diet. So you got a bad back You just need to pee and cabbage up bays and cabbage up. So was he in that when he was dictating to his secretary? I know that’s like it been like a lot like a long day of like, you know, being carried around because he couldn’t stop reading. Which is another thing his nephew said. He just be carried in front of the couch because he would not stop reading.

Mattie: Okay, though, that was me when I was a kid.

Austin: You Pliny the Elder.

Mattie: Oh, I have a feeling that he had a lot more money than me.

Austin: But more importantly, this cure implies that there’s like someone whose job was to pee in jars and eat cabbage.

Mattie: Maybe they were paid really well. This is the job we need.

Austin: This is the job we need now is P is eating cabbage and peeing on people.

Mattie: You can do that I hate cabbage. And I’m not big on P.

Austin: So we have sauerkraut, kimchi, oh, or your You’re the worst. Also, he had lots of cures for incontinence that are just wonderful. For the cure incontinence, you just touched the tips of the gentle tools with linen or Paris,

Mattie: hopefully in the privacy of your own home.

Austin: I hope so too. But you know, this is ancient Rome, so everything had a penis on it. So I mean, you wouldn’t be surprised like walk around as an old man touching some linen to his junk. You could mix ash of a pig’s penis in wine and drink that to cure your cure it or my favorite cure is you can either pee in your dog’s bed or in your neighbor’s dogs that in order to kill your incontinence. Which, you know, you laugh, but my grandfather, in his advanced Alzheimer’s did exactly this. And he did not have a problem with incontinence until the very end. So you tell me if this is not natural here is your grandpa Pliny the Elder, there’s some evidence of that.Mattie: I would really love to have heard a conversation with him plenty. And Freud.

Austin: Oh, yeah, that would have just been bizarre, because like, plenty would only speak Latin and Freud was German, and they’d be like, what are you saying and

Mattie: then be in the background music to all of it is Joey’s musical number from Freud friends.

Austin: So yeah, these ancient Roman curious are amazing. Oh, and also, you remember the Heimlich maneuver? Yeah, well, they had a way better cure for choking. What you would do if you were choking on a piece of bread. You would take two other pieces of the same loaf of bread.and stick them in your ears to cure choking. Okay. So struggling to keep it together right now. This is my new favorite historical Veigar headaches, tons of cures for headaches. His favorite hangover cure was eating a fried Canary, which I mean, we kind of do that because chicken and waffles is the best hangover cure.

Mattie: canaries got really bad luck throughout history.

Austin: Such bad luck. I mean, like not as bad luck is like horses. Yeah, you could touch the trunk of an elephant that had just sneezed to cure your headache. That’s why I keep our elephant in the backyard. You could drink water that an ass or an ox had just drank from. You could use a limit made with Bert cloth, Dane with menstrual blood and mixed with rose oil. Yeah, or all else failed. You could just make an amulet out of a fox testicle and strap it to your head.

Mattie: I don’t think he quite knows what an amulet is. Maybe I don’t know what an amulet is.

Austin: You know, stuff keeps coming back and hopefully someday testicle amulets will be a thing again, like how we have fanny packs right now.

Mattie: I love my fanny pack.

Austin: Then I’m going to start wearing like Fox testicle headband to cure headaches again.

Mattie: And the one British person who accidentally is listening to our podcast is laughing hysterically right now.

Austin: Are you ready to be angry?

Mattie: Always.

Austin: This is like I exact notice. It’s not a cure, but she’s this guy. This is what he had to say about menstrual blood. Oh please man, tell me with your male wisdom. What you have to say about the menstrual blood? Well, menstrual blood sours wine, it kills crops. It tarnishes steel and ivory. It kills bees. It rusts iron and it is what gives dogs rabies. Some of that could be true like if you drown bees in it. Yeah, but where do you get so much menstrual blood from the cabbage urine guy. This is a little side business. 37 volumes of

Mattie: And I will be reading all of those in my free time one here

Austin: This was hilarious is chicken soup kept on coming up as his cure for everything. Chicken Soup for this chicken soup. Oh have a broth made of chicken. Chicken Soup was plenty of the elders cure. So when your mom tells you Oh have some chicken soup for that cold. She might as well be telling you to strap a fox testicle to your head.

Mattie: Wait are the Chicken Soup for the Soul books really his stuff?

Austin: There’s 37 volumes of his natural history. How many of those do you think are just Chicken Soup for the Soul?

Mattie: At least five? maybe six.

Austin: Also in his encyclopedia is natural history talked a lot about foreign lands and the sights you would see there.

Mattie: Oh, dear lord.

Austin: There are people with no heads who just had eyeballs and faces on their torsos.

Mattie: Okay,

Austin: people with dog heads that talked by barking people with gigantic feet, that when they lay down, they use their feet to shave themselves from the sun. People who just had one leg and large feet and we’ll just hop around.

Mattie: I feel like these are just the inspiration for the scary stories to tell them the dark books.

Austin: They could be or the stupid Narnia books too, because there’s like one legged hockey people in that to clarify those scary stories. Talmudic awesome. Narnia, less awesome. There’s also up in golf, or as we know it now, France, there was a giant elk that had no knees that would sleep by leaning against the trees that didn’t rhyme in Latin. So don’t give them ship for that. I don’t know.

Mattie: Do you know that?

Austin: I took I took four years of high school. So no, I did not know any Latin.

Mattie: What is it simper will be up. There is semper ubi sub ubi

Austin: it’s always wear underwear.

Mattie: See I learned Spanish

Austin: Oh, so you miss Fancy Pants learned a useful language. Indeed. It would also when startled run really really fast because everyone knows having no knees makes you very fast.

Mattie: used to play with plastic horses as a kid.

Austin: Yeah, maybe he maybe he did too. That’s what he was doing in the bathroom. He was dictating these things. He had his little plastic elk. It’s like, Man, this elk is so fast. There were, this was my favorite. There are snakes that would coil up and then launch themselves into the air like springs to catch birds.

Mattie: That’s how they got on the plane.

Austin: Yes, this is exactly how they got on the plane. It’s just the way they flew too close to spring state plan dia, and these snakes just all attack that plane. His death is possibly more bizarre. He died in the eruption of Mount Vesuvius. He was not in Pompei. He simply saw the eruption and thought, oh my god, I have to see what this is about. And he ordered the ship he was on to get closer against the protest of his officers and crew. He went ashore with a pillow strapped to his head to protect him from the volcano.

Mattie: He forgot his amulet at home.

Austin: Okay, there is nothing about volcano protection amulets maybe that’s what he was trying to figure out. He was like trying to find everybody survived and get like an amulet tablets like okay. Oh cool you guys all had pigeon heart amulets wrapped in the scrotums of bowls. So you survived this volcano. That’s how you picks up invocate volcanoes. That’s what he’s trying to find out.

Mattie: This guy would have been a great frat, bro.

Austin: Well, I mean, he was Roman, they all been great fans, which is hilarious because it’s the Greek system did this all this and he’s running around trying to convince people to calm down this isn’t that bad. And then he either had a heart attack or is fixated on the volcanic ash and gas.

Mattie: Wait, so is one of those bodies and Pompei for lack of a better word him?

Austin: No, no, he was not in the buried by ash Park. He was in like the immediate Fallout trying to call down the people like 20 miles away. But still that was some of the bizarre teachings of Pliny the Elder who I guarantee is going to come up every time you study something that happened in the ancient world, because he wrote it down, Mattie: he never once came up in any of my Roman history theater education.


Austin: I doubt he would because how are you going to teach theater kids about your Fox testicle amulet by telling them to please do not do this at home? This is my home remedy for health headaches. That’s right. Never have a headache. Oh, God. So that was Pliny the Elder, though. My Will This Be On The Test is very simple. Is anything I just said going to be on the Test?

Mattie: I’m trying to think of any possible

Austin: here we go. With the eruption of Mount Vesuvius in 79 CE be on the test?

Mattie: Yeah, except for maybe the CE part, although I actually don’t know if I ever learned about Pompeii in school either.

Austin: Oh, we learned so much about Pompei. But again, I took Latin

Mattie:  I learned about Pompei from a book that was in my grandparents bathroom for us to read. Oh, you’re using the toilet.

Austin: That’s not the most concerning eruption that happened in there. Oh, no.

Mattie: Any last thoughts on anything?

Austin: I think your story was better.

Mattie: But yours left a lot more opportunities for me to interrupt you and I always appreciate being able to interrupt you.

Austin: You know, I appreciate being interrupted. It shows me my place.

Mattie: All right. So what is one thing you will take away from this about Miss Clara Luper?

Austin: Clara Luper was just amazing. She should be in more history and I’m, we got to get her in there. All right. What’s something you’re going to take away from Pliny the Elder? Elder van?

Mattie: Oh, God, Oh, God. Oh, dear God, why? Yes. This dude had a real thing about your in. But he’s also the reason that we still think that chicken soup will cure everything and that’s a little frightening to me.

Austin: Yeah, that was the most terrifying thing. And I had to talk about your neck unic you’re in which is so hard to say.

Mattie: Remember, you chose this topic.

Austin: Did this is my fault.

Mattie: Alright and on that note we are going to wrap it up today. If you want to find us we are on Twitter at on the test pod or@anchor.fm slash Will This Be On The Test Class dismissed.

Both: Class dismissed.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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